I am aware that there are many non-PoC people who have been affected by the RHB issue.
In my opinion there is no Us versus Them. Human characteristics and flaws are not distributed by race (or ethnicity, or gender, or ability, or neuro-normative status), they just are.
With that in mind I’d like to open this post for RHB targets of any background who wish to comment in a safe space.
Same rules apply. Comments will be moderated for vitriol.
There are many other corners of the net where anything goes. This place is for those who want to be heard in peace and to be supported.
ETA: This space is not for second-guessing or engaging in special pleading or doing any other thing that makes targets feel unsafe. Please appreciate and understand the need to keep this a safe space for those who have been targets and for those who are particularly vulnerable and in need of support.
Let’s try this again.
I apologize to all for my scorched Earth approach but I don’t think I was clear enough at the outset.
This is a space for victims and those who wish to support victims.
I respect you all, and I hope you will be considerate of those who are waiting to speak, but are less confident, less resilient, or still healing.
Let the victims speak, Offer support or just listen.
Or go elsewhere. This is a tiny, insignificant corner of the web. There are more exciting things happening elsewhere.
Thank you for listening.
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Thank you for creating this space. I’ve been reading and trying to give the people most directly affected the space they need.
My brush was, on the surface, very small and leaves me with complicated feelings.. RH reviewed one of my stories and called out a lot of problems that were, indeed, problems. I’m grateful for that.
She also said some fairly unpleasant things about me, as a person, that I ignored because responding to them would not have been productive. I’ve since learned that she went to other individuals and encouraged them to come after me in the twittersphere.
All of that would be… unpleasant, but the thing that makes me feel ill is that I also have an email from BS who said she was “star-struck.”
Same person.
And then to learn that BS is also a constructed persona?
As I say, my own brush is very small, but within that, I can see the trust that has been broken for the entire SFF community, particularly the damage it causes for PoC.
All of which is to say, that I’m going to continue to be quiet out of respect for those who need time, but that if there is something you need from me. I’m here. I can signal boost, or just have your back.
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Mary, thanks, that means a lot.
I think there’s a long path ahead of us and we’re all going to have to help each other through it.
I am, however, optimistic. The SFF community, despite some evidence to the contrary, is not stupid.
We’ll heal.
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Thanks for providing this space, Tade.
This entire thing has been so strange. Without the cover of the Mixon report, I literally never would have said anything in public – before that came out, everyone I ever saw protest their bullying by RH was instantly painted as a terrible person who deserved everything they got. That even happened when third parties spoke. For instance, Cindy Pon has never, to my knowledge, spoken publicly about RH’s campaign to intimidate people out of reviewing her books. But when someone else mentioned that on James Nicoll’s earlier post on the matter, a person immediately appeared and called Cindy a “collaborator” with racism, misogyny, rape apologism, etc. I feel quite sure that the same would have happened to me had I said anything without the report’s avalanche of statistics to back me up.
I can’t speak to or enforce anyone else’s feelings. But I do want to say that for me, this has never been about wanting protection from being called out for -isms or from negative reviews. I am never going to attack or pursue or even (unless invited) comment publicly about anyone who says I’m prejudiced or who dislikes my writing. My issue is with being stalked and harassed under the cover of justice.
If RH sincerely thought I was a homophobe, she could have produced some statement I made or action I took that she felt was homophobic, and called me out for that. Instead, RH used intimidation and bullying to try to prevent from discussing LGBTQ issues and doing activism for LGBTQ causes.
I don’t know why she did it, but my best guess is that she knew it was important to me, and that she knew being attacked in that way would hurt me. That is not right, it is not justice, and it was not done to benefit the LGBTQ community.
If the action of a supposed activist is identical to that which would be done by someone on the opposite side, then it’s time to re-think whether that person is a real activist.
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Catching up on comments as I seem to have missed some. Rachel, I’m deeply appreciative of your spirit and of your heart and I thank you for sharing your story. Reading the accounts shared by other people gave me the strength I needed to speak up as well. I am thankful for the support that’s been offered to me and for the warmth of extended hands.I’ve learned a lot from what’s happened to me and I continue to learn as I listen to what’s being shared in this space. Thank you.
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I would like to thank our host for his graciousness in providing this forum.
I locked horns with Winterfox a few times, back in the day, but I’m not a victim, per se. I fell off her radar long before she discovered and misappropriated the language and forms of social justice.
I am so sorry for those who faced the full brunt of her maliciousness and abuse. I admire the courage of those who have spoken up and come forward with their stories, and also, there is not enough thank you on the planet for what you have done.
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Thank you for opening this safe bubble in spacetime, Tade. I said much of what I wanted to say when I told my own story. I may say more. But for now, I’ll just quote the ending of an imperfect work, but one that touched my solar plexus:
“Ain’t all buttons and charts, little albatross. Know what the first rule of flying is? Well I s’pose you do, since you already know what I’m ’bout to say.”
“I do. But I like to hear you say it.”
“Love. Can know all the math in the ‘verse but take a boat in the air that you don’t love? She’ll shake you off just as sure as a turn in the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down…tell you she’s hurtin’ ‘fore she keens…makes her a home.”
This was my lab, once. And this, too, is the part of science fiction that contains the people for whom I care.
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Athena. I watched that vid and I’m all emotional over here. I agree. It’s love that’ll keep us in the air and love will help us weather all the storms together. I wish I could hug you right now and thank you for your generous heart. For you to continue to hold fast to hope in the face of what you’ve endured–I honor that and I salute you.
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Thank you, Rochita. On a less high-flown vein, RHB managed to exploit all the cleavage lines in SFF. Race is the most prominent one, but she tapped into more. Two that are obvious to me are ethnicity and age.
RHB harped on the purity narrative as a way to flatten nuances and cement hierarchies that legitimized her takeover attempts. The devaluation of diasporans has been given a pernicious boost by the current craze for “authenticity” in SFF. People who live between natal and adopted cultures can act as liaisons and interpreters – but not if they’re dismissed as “not pure enough”. Sunita dissected this issue superbly at VacuousMinx in On POC/WOC as Identity Category:It’s Different from the Inside and I say more from a different angle in Caesars and Caesar Salads.
Shallow, generic cultural views in fiction are one thing; blanket forbidding of creating or delving in other cultures would stifle SFF by definition. On a personal note, my own culture is still freely (ab)used in SFF, by logic similar to that of “some victims are less deserving”.
The devaluation of older women, both fictional and real, has been endemic in SFF. RHB selectively recruited young women, who lacked experience that might have helped them discern her real motives. However, the larger community has been equally content to name one or two names (always the same ones) and promote the perky young (who quickly become non-young), while erasing the countless old/er women who have been writing – many superbly – but who have small footprints.
This also means that younger women receive no mentoring and form no generational alliances with other women – incidentally, a standard tool in patriarchal structures (see patrilocality). It also means that the older women’s collective treasure trove of skills and the honor roll of their achievements is lost and forgotten.
Older women are willing and able to act as bridges, bards and mentors. It’s up to the SFF community to realize and implement their unique value. Not surprisingly, I have more to say on this as well: Where are the Wise Crones in Science Fiction?
And with this too-long interjection, I will go walk on the wind again.
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Athena, I’m with you on this. I don’t remember now who made the comment on how when space needs to made, people seem to equate it with all right, you women have to move over to make room and usually it’s older women who have to move over. I find this puzzling as I don’t understand what makes it impossible for all of us to stand side by side as we all have unique stories to tell. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing, but I grew up sitting at the feet of my grandmother, my aunts, my great aunts, older men and women in the community and learning from the stories they told. I acknowledge that I still need to learn a lot and am thankful that I’ve come to know folks who have insight into things that I don’t have.
Again thank you for speaking up and for sharing your thoughts. They are very much appreciated and you are much appreciated. I’m glad I got to know you.
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One of my favourite scenes :)
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Thanks so much, Tade, for creating this space–both this one, and the safe space for POC–who’ve been harmed.
Since I released my report, I’ve seen so much courage on the part of people who’ve been harmed by BS/RH: a willingness to speak up in public or private, and such an outpouring of support for them, that I have been greatly heartened.
I agree with you that we have a long and hard journey and many difficult conversations, to help heal all the rifts BS/RH exploited. I’m in all the way on this, and glad to have gotten to know you, Rochita, Victor, Athena, Rachel Brown, and Trish Sullivan, as well as many other people who are taking steps to begin that process. I believe we can do this together. Count me in.
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Laura, thank you for coming over and sharing what’s in your heart. I know you put yourself on the line in this issue and regardless of the flaws that have been pointed out in your report, I’m thankful for the way in which it’s given folks like me the courage and the confidence to speak out and tell our stories. It’s the fear of not being believed that keeps us silent and knowing that someone believes us means a great deal.
I’m glad that I got to know you ( you know this already but I wanted to say it again). I look forward to taking concrete steps that will help us grow stronger. To me, this incident serves as a warning–we need to put actions to words. SAFE is a first step, but I want us all to move forward together and take more steps towards lasting change, enduring diversity and true inclusiveness.
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Sorry, I hadn’t replied. I’m not doing things in order.
I’m aware your report puts you in the line of fire and it can’t have been an easy thing to do. This space exists because of comments made on your blog or on other blogs in response to it.
All I can say is working for peace is often a thankless job. Heck, not just that, you’ll be rewarded with the opposite. When that happens (and I know it has) always think back to why you wrote the report in the first place.
Welcome.
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Um, wow, I just stumbled upon this entire Winterfox/RH hooplah TONIGHT. I am shocked (and yet not) at the degree she has taken her vitriol. Guys, I had dealings with her back in 2006 or earlier on fanfiction.net. Oh, the stories. This is incredible. I was vilified for MONTHS for standing up to the insane bullying this person passed off as “concrit”. I’m just…shocked that it’s come to this, more shocked by the unbelievable extent of her hate. Wow. Just..wow.
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Jennifer, I understand how upsetting it is to be at the receiving end of bullying and hate, but I would like to keep this space a safe one. I’d also like to take this opportunity to remind folks that should you choose to comment here, please consider carefully the language that you use when talking about RH. Using words like “insane” to describe what she did is something I’m not comfortable with. ( Tade isn’t around right now, but I am and I think I get to say on what terms I’d like this conversation to take place.)
This isn’t to negate or silence you. I acknowledge what you’re saying here and your emotions are valid ones.
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Yes, this is the same Winterfox.
I’m from the same era of fanfiction.net that you refer to (and somewhat earlier, in fact) and yeah…while names like GAFF and PPC won’t mean anything to Rochita, they probably will to you. There’s actually something that keeps niggling at me in this whole mess, which is that I was one of the people harrassing other writers in the name of “concrit” back then. I am ashamed of myself now and incredibly sorry for having helped to hurt people, but the reason the name Winterfox is one I’ve known for a dozen years is that I was there, too, doing some of the same things.
I know Rochita has said she doesn’t want terms like “insane” thrown around willy-nilly, but looking back at that time in my life I honestly do feel that there was a kind of mass mania involved, a disconnect with reality and a distortion of thought, that led a crowd of fans to say and do cruel things to other writers in the name of “literary purity” and “proper characterization” and “good writing.” We were awful. We were wrong. And we built each other up into a self-righteous frenzy and told ourselves we were improving fandom. By screaming at the “bad” writers until they stopped writing things that didn’t come up to our standards.
I am so, so sorry. That it was groupthink does not absolve us of responsibility for what each of us said and did.
But yes. This is the same Winterfox. I knew her in 2002 as one of the smarter, louder voices, which given my standards for “smart” at the time probably means she was one of the bigger bullies. She hasn’t gotten any better; if anything she’s gotten worse. And I find it horribly ironic that one of the defenses people have mounted of her recently (not on this blog, but elsewhere) is that her stalking and threatening of people was just someone earnestly getting carried away with passion for social justice–when she was using those same ugly tactics to silence people for literal years before she ever thought to cloak it in the language of social justice.
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Dear Nenya, thank you so much for your message. It comes at a time when my heart is aching and it comforts me to read your words. I’m writing this reply as a letter to you because letters are intimate even letters that are posted in public spaces. It takes courage to come forward and to say what you’ve said here and it renews my faith and my hope.
I think that we all pass through moments in our lives when we get caught up in a certain narrative–it’s comforting because lines are so clearly drawn. It’s seductive because we want to be safe and buying into the narrative is safer than going outside the lines to walk the walk that fits us best. Life, I’ve found, is more complex than black and white rules, and real change requires a certain willingness to be vulnerable. It’s scary. It’s frightening, but it is also freeing.
I’m stretching out my hands to you in thanks for your words. Rochita
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Thank you so much, Rochita. I’m honoured by your kindness. I think you’re right that it’s easy to draw lines (and always put ourselves on the “right” side, of course!) and simplify life’s complexities. It is extremely seductive to have an in-group, a special code, a band of brothers…and while that fills a real human need, it can also be perverted. Cults, mobs, vigilante justice. I’ve come to the conclusion over the years that if any great plan for improving society in the future turns out to involve destroying and damaging real people right now, something is wrong. The only thing we have is each other, the only time we have is today. We can’t burn the world to the ground to save it, because we live in this world and so do other people. Who matter.
I’ve mentioned fanfiction, and now I’m thinking of a quote from a story someone wrote based on Janelle Monae’s works: “it’s important, when everyone is almost but not quite moving to the same song, to let the others pick their own beats.” That resonates with me as I think about all our efforts to build a world based on justice and equality.
Also want to say: I have been in awe of your gentleness and clarity in this whole business. You have amazed me. It has clearly taken immense emotional and practical effort on your part. Thank you. Really, thank you.
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I’m very moved by your words, Nenya. Someday, I hope we get the chance to talk in real space. I think that we learn as we progress in the journey and I am determined not to give up hope. I love that quote you shared. Indeed, we all have to let others pick their own beats. I hope you’ll experience this space as a place where you can be free to dance to your own music. Sending you love and thanks.
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I think it’s very brave of you to own what you used to be, Nenya. We’ve all done things of which we are not proud (I know I have), but to talk about it in public is a different matter entirely.
And, yes, groupthink…it happens. Something to contend with, I guess.
Welcome.
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Hi Jennifer, adding a quick note to apologize about the shortness of my reply yesterday. I hope you know that you too are welcome here.
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Not at all. Like Nenya, I’ve known BS since the ffnet days and beyond. What sickens me almost as much as the bullying is the lies she’s perpetrated under her “nice” fake persona, Bee. The duality of the deceit is so incredibly violative of trust, not just among her inner circle, but among the SFF community in general, it’s hard to fathom.
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I think that many of us find it hard to comprehend as well. How someone can move in a path that not only destroys others but also ultimately leads to self-destruction–you said the words, it’s hard to fathom.
My initial response to this was to want to shelter and hide everyone away from harm. To keep those who I wanted to protect from being touched by destruction. But Nalo Hopkinson very wisely reminded me that we cannot protect everyone but we can equip those we care for. Wise words to keep in mind as we move forward.
I don’t doubt that there will be others who will attempt to destroy communities, but we can make the choice to build stronger communities, to be more mindful in our interactions with each other and to be alert as well with regards to whom we let into the spaces we occupy. It’s not that we bar the doors, but we develop the ability to discern destructive patterns and refuse to allow them space in our lives.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the willingness of each one to open your thoughts in this space.
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First, my heartfelt thanks to Tade for hosting and Rochita for moderating this space. The practice of nonviolence and community-building requires intellectual and emotional strength, as we traverse a landscape made treacherous by the unexploded ordnance of historic violence.
I am a U.S.-based SF/F writer a little younger than Athena. My contact with RH/BS was tangential: I read the RH blog (pretty much all the entries), and later bought and favorably reviewed work by BS. When the connection was made between the two personae, I recognized a crossroads and took my stand.
As a result, I have made connections with many younger writers around the world. I’ve been a mentor to other writers, artists, scientists, and aspiring professionals since I was 17. In that role, I have great-great-grandchildren of the spirit and intellect, who collectively have accomplished great things out of their own cultural strengths, personal experience, and artistic discipline. I am proud of my role in helping that to happen.
Let’s be very clear: the bullying and harassment by RH/BS might have been facilitated by the internet, but the pattern is both very real in its effects, and quite familiar.
I have watched toxic behavior like this in schools, university academic departments, tech industry, and higher ed. In an all-white firm, I found myself targeted due to gender expression, class origins, and insistence on compliance with ethical standards. In a very diverse academic setting, I found myself a bystander as respected colleagues of color were targeted by management, more or less in order by the prevailing U.S. race/sex/gender/class hierarchy. I hung in there as long as I could, supporting my colleagues of color and mentoring younger people. What horrified me in the midst of a constant barrage of disrespect, people tormented to the point of hospitalization, and disrespect for both youth and experience, was the drumbeat of rhetoric about “social justice.”
Nonetheless, I am a constitutional pessimist and practicing optimist. RH tests where we really stand. What behavior is acceptable–in general, without respect to who is doing it?
As a SF/F writer, I’m a newcomer. “New writer but old fighter,” I stand ready to serve in making our multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, marvelously diverse community a place where new visions of future, past, and present can come to fruition.
Let me know how I can help.
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Just a quick and minor correction: the space is moderated by me along with Rochita and a few other volunteers.
Thanks for your comment and welcome.
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I love that I get to see you in this space. I know you from twitter and I have always found what you’ve shared to be valuable and helpful. I hope that we can work together indeed. If you don’t mind me reaching out to you via your email, I would love to rope you into my list of contacts for a project to set-up nurturing spaces. It warms my heart so much to meet like-minded folks. Much love and warmth to you and thanks for taking the time to post here.
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Yes! You can reach me on the Contact form on my website at http://epbeaumont.com
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When I was about fourteen, maybe fifteen years old, I had posted some fiction on fictionpress.com. It was awful–legitimately, almost brazenly. I was a kid who grew up in a town of 700: I had the online identity preserving instincts of a toothbrush. I understand that I’m months late to the party–I only saw the link to the article on GRRM’s blog, and was stunned to discover that my childhood tormentor was an individual of some measure of renown.
My mercifully brief encounter with her had a more lasting effect on me than I’d care to admit. I was, as I say, quite young, and I admired her quick wit and prose–I believe she wasn’t quite as acerbic as she would later become back in 2004–and even had an extended MSN conversation with her, genuinely trying to glean what I might learn to improve. Suffice to say I learned very little about writing, but I did have my ability to study English at the University level attacked, and there were plenty of attacks on my character and ability to write.
To be clear, this incident event affected me for years. I stopped writing for quite some time, convinced I simply didn’t have the talent. But what I find shocking, and deeply, fundamentally disturbing, was that I, a white, straight male, was let so lightly off the hook, compared to her less privileged victims. It’s not like it would’ve been hard. She had my MSN contact for years.
I remember, years later, she messaged me inquiring about smartphones or Blackberries or something, and which models were superior–I don’t know, maybe she just mixed up my username with someone else’s. But it struck me as pitiably sad, that awkward attempt to reach out to someone for a normal conversation. I have no doubt that by that point she had utterly forgotten who I was, awash in a list of people she’d attacked.
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Wow. Sorry you had to go through that. Might I ask, have you been able to start writing again?
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Oh, yeah. By the time I was about 17 or 18, I really got back into the swing of things and today I’m happily plugging away at it. Had I been the target of one of Winterfox/RH’s more sustained attacks, though? I have no idea if that would still be true. My deepest sympathies go out to anyone who was on the receiving end of what I feel she too lightly refers to as her “invective”, particularly those who did not have the good fortune to keep their encounters brief.
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Writers understand more than anyone else the effect of words on us. I’m glad that you were able to pick up writing again.
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Thanks, Matthew, for sharing your story. I’m glad you’re writing again. Keep it up!
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I want to encourage Matt and all writers browbeaten and bullied out of what they want to do: don’t give up and don’t let anyone tell you what you can or can’t do. There’s no such thing as the art police…or there shouldn’t be. There can’t be––unless we allow it.
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Late to the ‘party’ here, but I was also targeted by this hateful individual because of my statement of intent written in application to the Clarion Workshop. I wrote about the difficulties I faced having run away from home at a young age and how that experience prepared me for some of the challenges that awaited me in life. Somehow, she saw my post and latched on to the fact that as a white male, I wouldn’t know about difficulties. That’s fine…other folks face many more difficulties than I. But then came a sequence of hateful tweets, from RH and her sycophantic followers, that drove me away from the fan scene for quite a while (only now returning, in fact).
I was discouraged by this incident (and her brood’s campaign to take down nearly everyone in the field with hate), but I was more discouraged by the microphone some prominent people in the field (Tidhar comes to mind, but there were plenty of others) gave to her brand of hate speech.
I’m also discouraged that her hate speech turned people off of one piece of her underlying message that was positive: the SFF community must be better in terms of representation.
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Lawrence, thank you for coming over and posting here. I don’t know when this incident took place, but to my shame, I was probably one of those folks who looked the other way because she was saying all the right things. If it’s any comfort, I believe that many who supported her at that time have since come to understand just how harmful her actions have been and that it went much deeper than cutting reviews. I don’t know what we would have done if the Mixon report had existed at that time, but I think that many of us would have been more cautious in our engagement and would have thought very carefully before we ever extended any support.
I do choose to see this as an opportunity to remind the SFF community of the danger that exists when only one voice is magnified. That we should learn to amplify and encourage a multiplicity of voices and encourage different views and different opinions on subjects like the use of culture, and that we should be proactive in giving space to voices from outside of hegemony.
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Lawrence, seconding Rochita’s reply. Lots of props to you for speaking up.
I think this whole situation has caused a lot of people, including me, to reconsider how we communicate around issues of representation, marginalization, and social justice. Your own experience as a youth sounds harrowing, and you shouldn’t have to justify it in terms of your demographics in order for your experience to be validated by the community.
-l.
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